www.ArgumentCenter.org - Where hard questions are answered

• Exodus 20:4 "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven . . . earth . . . water."
• Leviticus 26:1 "Ye shall make ye no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone...."
• Deuteronomy 27:15 "Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image..."

  vs.

• Exodus 25:18 "And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them."
• I Kings 7:15,16,23,25 "For he [Solomon] cast two pillars of brass . . . and two chapiters of molten brass . . . And he made a molten sea . . . it stood upon twelve oxen . . . [and so on]"

- http://www.ffrf.org/books/lfif/?t=contra
So did the Bible contradict itself?

< STRONG No, the verses which condemn making graven images refer to images of idols, and are linked to idol worship.

In Ex 20:4, Lev 26:1, and Deut 27:15, "graven image" is for the Hebrew word "pecel", which is the graven image of an idol. Idol worship is strictly forbidden as noted in the Ex 20:5, "Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them." This verse immediately follows Ex 20:4, and thereby links the making of graven images (of an idol), as well as statues and stone images, to their worship.

Likewise, Lev 26:1 states, "Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up [any] image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I [am] the LORD your God." Here again, the practice of making a graven image of an idol to worship it is linked.

Deut 27:15 states, "Cursed [be] the man that maketh [any] graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth [it] in [a] secret [place]."  This verse puts a curse on idolators, those making and worshipping idols. In a commentary by Matthew Henry, he writes "Whether it be a graven image or a molten image, it comes all to one, it is an abomination to the Lord, even though it be not set up in public, but in a secret place... reserved there with respect and a constant temptation."

As we can see, the making of graven images [of idols] is associated with idol worship, which is forbidden. The Jews who were instructed to make images of Cherubim, and pillars of brass were not making themselves idols. There is no association with these images or statues to any worship or idolatry. God forbade idolatry over images and stone, not the images/stones themselves.

-JM

>> WEAK This ignores the actual wording of the verse in Ex 20:4. 

The text does not approve the making of graven images or likenesses so long as they are not worshipped - it says make no images or likenesses, period.

- http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/biblecontra.html#images

< STRONG The link between images and their worship is clear. You're ignoring the context and true meaning.

You cannot understand Ex 20:4 without reading Ex 20:5; you simply cannot separate the two, or conveniently decide to ignore all the other verses that make the link between graven images and idol worship clear. The commandment was given specifically to prevent idol worship.

-JM

< While it's true that in one complete sentence, it just says not to make any carved images like that found in heaven and in earth, keep in mind that this complete sentence was part of a paragraph expressing a command.

The paragraph doesn't just say "don't make images found in heaven and in earth," but then follows up with an immediate sentence explaining why. So in other words, if an image we make happens to not involve any idol worship, then obviously it's not going against this complete paragraph.

For one thing, many sentences throughout the Bible are continuous in Hebrew and Greek, whereas they are rendered into separate sentences in English. For example, consider Genesis 1:2. It says: "And the earth was waste and void; and darkness was upon the earth; and....." 

As you can see, these are all one continuous stream of thought.  

>> STRONG Fine, but very likely its stating two separate things in this one paragraph, that you shouldn't make any carved images to begin with. 

So your langauge interpretion is actually distorting the command to mean only one thing, and not two things which was originally intended. 

< STRONG If two things are really mentioned, then let's see if God has punished people because they have carved images even though they never worshiped them. 

This way, we can see clearly what God is saying, and see if the paragraph should be taken as a whole or indicative of multiple separate but related commands. 

< STRONG No, graven images were the standard method of pagan worship. They were representations of false gods.

Now that being the case, it is fairly obvious that an "image" NOT made for worship is acceptable. In fact, we should not really call things like the cherubims "images" at all -- an "image" in ancient thought is not merely something that has an appearance, like a statue or a picture, but something that serves as a focal point for the presence and power of a deity.

Thus for example ancient rulers in Egypt, Babylon, and elsewhere were referred to as the "image" of a certain deity, not because they looked like the deity, but because the deity's power and authority was thought to operate through them. Barker is simply making the same erroneous interpretation that much of Jewish culture made.

Solomon's bulls and such were (as far as we can tell) not for worship and do not fit the definition of an "image" we have described. The cherubim on the Ark were not for worship and also do not fit the ancient definition. So, the command was not violated in either case.

We should add that the Hebrew words for "image" and "likeness" are essentially synonyms (as shown both by their interchangeable use in the OT, and by the interchangeable use of the equivalent words in pagan literature of the period), and a "likeness" is also therefore a focal point for the presence and power of a deity, just like an image.

- http://www.tektonics.org/gk/gravenimages.html

>> WEAK This ignores the actual wording of the verse in Ex 20:4. 

The text does not approve the making of graven images or likenesses so long as they are not worshiped - it says make no images or likenesses, period. (from another argument)

- http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/biblecontra.html#images

< STRONG The link between images and their worship is clear. You're ignoring the context and true meaning.

You cannot understand Ex 20:4 without reading Ex 20:5; you simply cannot separate the two, or conveniently decide to ignore all the other verses that make the link between graven images and idol worship clear (See 1st argument). The commandment was given specifically to prevent idol worship. (from another argument)